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Brad Templeton's avatar

I've disagreed with you before Phil but this one is off the charts. Companies like Waymo have had independent auditors report one liability incident per 2.3M miles, which is much better than the human record. Just what bar do you want to hold them to? Even at that level, you are going to get incidents. You are not going to get perfection. Ever. You're going to get incidents which look stupid in the press, incidents which a human wouldn't have done. That's because these are not humans, their error patterns will not match humans. Unless you can prove their premise of being able to be safer wrong (and it's not wrong, so you can't prove that) you hold them to a standard that is either impossible or greatly delays the deployment of the future's large, scaled fleets with high safety performance which do greatly reduce risk on the roads. Because if you delay this, you don't simply remove the risk of badly behaving robots, you replace it with the well known and much higher risk of the full range of humans, from drunks to professionals. Without question you cause a major, major increase of risk on our roads. That can't possibly be your goal, and yet it is what you seem to demand.

So what standard do you hold them to? It can't be perfection. It's unlikely it can even be "never make a mistake a human would not." (Even humans can't promise they won't make unusual mistakes that other humans don't make.) So what is it? And then do the math. Consider the delay you are asking for. Calculate the additional road risk in the future, when a safe fleet is deployed at scale. Calculate the risk you deem too much from tiny fleets today that might not meet your bar. Tell us the result of this calculation, any way you want to quantify the risk.

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F Perkins's avatar

Thank you.

Another perspective is that there is nothing an AV can do that a human can’t, but there are many hazards they create that are not present in human-driven vehicles. Every added or novel hazard associated with their machinery-based operations needs to be proven inconsequential before exposing the public to those AV-unique hazards.

The public needs to be protected from those AV hazards. The public is protected from the hazards at construction sites and airports by fences. Workers are protected from the machinery and process hazards in factories by machine design, regulations, interlocks and barriers. AVs operating in public are lethal hazards to motorists and pedestrians alike. Even if they are someday proven equally conforming to regulations and the unwritten rules of the road in place for humans, the public still needs protection from the hazards unique to AV operation. It is unconscionable that they are allowed to endanger the public without the same kinds of protections that all other dangerous machinery requires.

Safety comes first. Since AVs don’t do anything that a human cannot do equally well, society will not suffer if developers are required to put adequate safety protections in place. How? Another puzzle for them. It public safety should not suffer because of AV developer’s target return on investment. Those threats are private.

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